Why don't people search before asking?

[Helter]

Adrian Rea - I have split this off topic from it's thread as it has its own merit for discussion. So here is Helter's main development of the off-topic..... A


im not trying to be a smart ass and I dont want to discourage anyone. It is just that this has been an issue for years. It is much easier to ask than search, but it gets tiresome answering the same questions over and over. This may be a good use for the FTR (Force To Read) mod, to explain how and where to search for answers before posting a question.

[Bush]

I'm on the same page as you Helter.

I think there should be a FTR on this site, that tells people to search the active site and the archive site. Most every common question has been answered multiple times in multiple threads..

When searching make sure to search using ALL TERMS (which is NOT the default search option, so look closely at the search page).

[Adrian Rea]

I am one to sit on the fence, sometimes, sometimes I will go through a spate of asking people to search and then other times I just give the answer as it seems easier.

I think whatever response is given to requests for help, it should be polite and motivate the user toward the correct answer. Hopefully the response also allows them to feel empowered and perhaps wanting to give support back out of gratitude.

I RECOMMEND, it is the duty of those who give support and those who do not wish to repeat themselves over and over again, it is our duty to provide a thorough and detailed reference that holds all the answers to direct the noobs to. I feel thatI am particularly one that needs to help on this front and I am sorry that illness and distraction has not made me progress as I could.

Yes let's tell the new users that come on board that the answers are out there, but lets give them a resource in the KB an in future documents that will not only give them the answer, but will also give the answers to questions before they even thought to ask!

A

[tmotley]

I may actually be guilty of this very thing but I'm trying not to. I'm trying to teach myself to help others so I can learn more. I apologize...

Lately, when I offer assistance with information I found with a search, I try to provide the answer with a link that has the search keywords in the url...

[Adrian Rea]

I personally feel that anyone trying to help, is of far more help than someone who just leaes people with nothing. Even by saying 'do a search' is helping. It lets new people know that the answer is there. I too have been trying to research how to make a search url that gives the response that enables people to see better results, but it returns posts, rather than titles at the moment.

Please do keep helping others, and perhaps helping fill the KB with articles you feel confident on is also a major benefit to others.

A

[Helter]

I have also added a link directly to the search page on the archive site to the Board Nav block

[Adrian Rea]

Thanks HelterSkelter [flash=,:g16bnxgd]http://integramod.com/forum/images/icon/icon14.gif[/flash:g16bnxgd]


A

[Helter]

np, I thought it might make it a little more apparent to new users as to the purpose of having the archive available.

[ZacFields]

I have only recently started using integramod.com and I"ve found myself seeking help and also giving help when I can. I have always been impressed with the kindness people have here for stuff that can be found in a search.

I do caution, however, that if you're not a noob then searching will always seem easier. But remember that perhaps sometimes the search function is difficult to use in some situations.

For instance... what if somebody doesn't know how to describe what they're looking for in the confines of a search box? Also remember some people are not very strong spellers either, and let's not forget that the PHPBB search function is no google....sometimes it can be difficult to find what you're looking for especially if you don't know the rules of the PHPBB search. Exe: "integramod and compatible and php5" would be the correct way to search for the question "is integramod compatible with php5?" But if you put "integramod compatible with php5" it's going to give you every post that has the word "integramod" in it and "compatible" and "php5" so you get a slew of responses.

I'd say, suggest a search if you want, but for the sake of keeping the friendly atmosphere of the IM forums that I have grown to love, it's better to say nothing than to be nasty to someone about it. Personally I would rather search and find it myself and just post up a link for them. If it's so easy, that shouldn't be a problem I wouldn't think?

Just my 2 cents...but then again I am also kinda new to this as well so maybe i'm a little more on the noobie side. But I'm hoping to get more involved with the IM production in the future. I am already able to answer some questions and am keeping an eye on the forums and trying to become more sufficient in that area!

Zac

[Adrian Rea]

I quite agree with you Zac, and again the onus is on the regulars to develop the core knowledge in the KB. This then can act as the manual that noobs can search through, where it is hopefully displayed in a logical and thorough manner.

I feel we should make new people aware that it is preferred that they search first, seek assistance if unsuccessful and report if and how their problem is solved. Hounding them about it could become counter productive. So the more we can reduce the strict approach, increase the informative resource and guide members toward the informal but inspiring approach, then all the better for our community.

No one here is really that strict, if they were, they would be informed of it! <img> Yes this is a community that is great, and the fact there is this kind of discussion proves it.

A

[ZacFields]

^ I totally agree with your last statement Adrian!

The difference between the integramod forums and the phpbb forums is staggering. I find myself being amazed at how the forums are for the same software, but the integramod community is so much more gentle than the PHPBB community.

In the PHPBB.com forum it is especially hard to use the search function. You type anything into that search and you will get a ridiculous amount of results to sift through. And don't bother asking any questions there if you run a pre-modded version of PHPBB. Apparantly...you can mod it yourself and you're fine, but if somebody else mods it for you, well that changes the whole mood of the people on that site.

Either way. the IM community is great! You guys do a great job and your support puts the PHPBB.com support forums to shame.

Zac

[Michaelo]

I been answering questions all my life, its what I do

Mike

[Adrian Rea]

nice and interesting one Mike, I agree we have more repeats that the digital tv channels. The Mod is a nice idea, but maybe it is a fancy search mod that still needs refining by the user. It would hopefully educate them a bit but maybe we could educate better how to use the search engine and perhaps setting search keys in posts that have solved issues. For example a solved issue of icon sizes could have extra text in the post such as sovedicons and solvedsize to reduce the number of returns in a search. I am aware that users would need to think about what the search codes could be but these could be basic and obvious, added by moderators in one post of a thread. This also would hopefully speed actual processor time on searching too.

A

[jwernerny]

I have found that searching is often the most difficult thing to do on any forum. It starts with just finding the right terms. Referring to the little box where you have to enter the letters in a picture, do you call it an "Image Verification Box" or an "Anti-Robot Hack" or what? (I have seen all of these.)

The best solution would be an improved search mod which offers alternatives, so if I were to search for "Anti-Robot Hack" it would also offer "Image Verification Box." [No, I'm not volunteering to write this. <img> ]

A quicker to implement solution might be a special forum (probably moderated) that has a series of posts in it that each contain similar search terms. Here is an example:

Title: Search Terms like "Image Verification"

Image Verification
Anti-Robotic Hack
Letter Pictures

Thus, when a user searches for something, they will hopefully come up with a set of alternative search strings to try.

The forum with all of these could be populated simply with posts from users who discovered the other terms they were looking for.

- John

[atomhead]

I always search before asking but half the time I'm not searching for the right thing because other people desribe the problem with different keywords than what I logically would assume people use <img>

[jwernerny]

I propose a solution to that in this post: http://integramod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1372. Now what we need is someone who knows enought SQL and PHP and IntegraMod to code it.

- John

[evolver]

I would always answer people, even if the question has been asked before...
Just an answer like: look it up yourself wouldn't do it for me...
That's how I am, the ability to give solutions to others is something to be proud about... Not everyone can do that...

About people asking questions:
The fact that they ask a question is already an effort...
By doing so, they don't only help themselves, but also everyone else with the same question...
Searching is an option some still have to learn using...
It's always good to help them on their way to do so...
Not everyone is an expert...
An answer like: "Look it up yourself", is not an answer but an advise...
I would rather reply with advise & answer...

I do know how people can ask the same question over and over again, and how annoying that can be...
I am a busdriver...
You can't even imagine how many times people ask if I go to the station or the centre of Bruges...one after the other, standing behind each other...
One big row of people asking the same thing...you wouldn't believe it.
Sometimes in Dutch, sometimes in French, sometimes in English, sometimes in German,...
But they are all asking the same...and they never listen to what I've said to the others...
And they don't even have to ask...IT'S WRITTEN ON FRONT OF THE BUS
They can't read???
But still, I answer their questions, and not just by saying go outside to read what's written on front of the bus... I just don't have that much time...

There are also people that never ask, but suddenly start to panic when I reach destination...they've taken the wrong bus <img>
They should've asked...

[Adrian Rea]

heheheh

Very true. I have spent 15 years looking after people with dementia (Alzheimers etc) and some patients ask the same question every 30 seconds. They always get a polite, informative response and are happy until 30 secons later they seek an answer that to them, they have never asked before. This does start to get on your nerves after an hour and a half! but nevertheless all humans deserve either answers, explanation on how to find the answers or discussion on why the answers could not be found.

A

[obiku]

A little off topic, but it can help to solve this one

For instance... what if somebody doesn't know how to describe what they're looking for in the confines of a search box? Also remember some people are not very strong spellers either, and let's not forget that the PHPBB search function is no google....sometimes it can be difficult to find what you're looking for especially if you don't know the rules of the PHPBB search. Exe: "integramod and compatible and php5" would be the correct way to search for the question "is integramod compatible with php5?" But if you put "integramod compatible with php5" it's going to give you every post that has the word "integramod" in it and "compatible" and "php5" so you get a slew of responses.

Zac

I, also as noob return this in a question. Why is the function of AND in the search not changed in to you need to use AND if you are searching for 2 or more different things. Like if you put "php5 AND integramod" in the search it will give back topics in whatever topic one of these words appears.
And if you put "integramod compatible with php5" in the search, it will give you back topics where 2 or more same words in the topic?

Just the other way around like now....

[obiku]

By the way, I also try to help one who is searching for something. And if I found it I will give him a link to that answer back.

And I think on everybody work there always are people who ask over and over the same question. And because that person is right in front of you, you always give polite answer and in a friendly way you point him on where and how he can find it the next time.

For somehow, if people are behind a monitor, they get faster frustrated and being polite/ friendly isn't important any more ......... And that is very time consuming <img>

[MrGrim]

sometimes it's easier just to post..we all feel and think differently..I know I have posted just because clicking a serach button and putitng in certain keywords take to long. But I'll search when I'm mainy up for it..lol I dig what you saying though.

[found it]

I search for every problem I encounter on my sites...though when i was a complete noob I didnt even know about a search feature...

I have learnt so much from searching and trying things out for myself that I am able to achieve so much compared to a year ago.....

The only problem I have when people post with the same question or do not think to search is sadly how ungrateful i would say 50% are....

The thing I have found is I have got caught up in search the net for a members problem that an hour later i think to myself hold on....why am I doing this on my time when they could be doing it......

I do believe that a better way of getting members to use the search feature would be great idea and to promote the search feature more is the way forward.....

[obiku]

The only thing we can do is point other people at the search, but not just like search it you self <img> Thats not the way it works.

The other thing phpBB and IntegraMOD can do is to set the default option in search to "Search for all terms" in stead of what it is on now "Search for any terms or use query as entered"

offtopic: Recently I see that the BBCODE isn't working anymore. Also every " is replaced with \"

Editted: Try to see if it helps if I turn off HTML, but it doesn't help. Even when I edit a post the is infront of every "

[Helter]

disable html and it will not add those. I prematurly updated the forum to 2.0.21, but as Teelk stated, the update is not quite ready....oops!